DUST Search - Potential logistics balance(tweaks) CPM/CCP please read.

maybe deadcatz wrote:

Xvos Reigns wrote:

maybe deadcatz wrote:

I doubt the game(actually the ps3 I mean) can handle doing that extra calculation. Let's not mess with something that already works. Maybe just the solo wp for scanners. I'm more concerned about the victory screen bug,that sh!t was fuking annoying as hell.

I agree that bugs exist that more need the attention, but some things won't be possible without a port, which is another story in and of itself.

I think that the opportunity to look at balance from many points of view will help dust evolve.

I forget where I saw it but...

"Sometimes seeing things differently requires NEW eyes, not just looking from a different point of view."

Trust me. And I'm not bashing CCP or anything but,I doubt they can code all those values to make the equipment give differing warpoints for actions done by different suits. Seems like that would stress out the ps3 even more and kill off even the best of them. And looking at your balance numbers,it still wouldn't encourage much use of the am and cal logistics in PC,gal and min would still reign supreme.

Cal logistics needs a little buff,am logi is fine except for those imperial viziam flux uplinks which render the 2million skill point investment in them rather useless.
And you might wanna readjust those war point values. The balance is kinda wonk,if you prefer lore based balances it would be more like this.

.......Rep . spawn . supply . scans
Min 30 . 10 . 10 . 10
Am 10 . 30 . 10 . 10
Cal 10 . 10 .. 30 . 10
Ga 10 . 10 .. 10 .. 25

I don't know exactly which side is allied with which but I'm sure each logi could get 2 bonuse war points if they use the allied sides equipment.

Say minmitar is allied with gallente(I forgot)
A min logi gets 30wp for rep,and 25 for scans(5 bonus wp instead of 20 due to being allies)

Well I dunno. I don't remember all of eve's deep lore or any of the information on the how the am,cal,gal,and min folk relate to each other.


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Xvos Reigns 311	Posted - 2015.12.08 01:27:00 - [1] - Quote I know that this is probably the wrong thread to discuss this but I have An idea for logistics balance. I also believe that the logi is currently in a good state, maybe a bit OP, but balance needs to exist to encourage the use of all four races. My grand proposal is to encourage balance through WP distribution. Ammar Logistics: 25 points for spawns, 15 points for reps, 15 points for nanos, and 15 points for scans Caldari Logistics: 25 points for nanos, 15 points for reps, 15 points for scans, and 15 points for spawns Gallente Logistics: 25 points for scans, 15 points for nanos, 15 points for reps, and 15 points for spawns Minmatar Logistics: 25 points for reps, 15 points for scans, 15 points for nanos, and 15 points for spawns. I think that this would encourage the use of all four races especially in PC. I also did not include the nanite injector because it is fine and I also support the idea of having the injector in a hidden slot on all suits. These numbers may need to be tweaked and a few things balanced out as well, such as gal logi scans being way to OP, but I think that this idea has some merit to it and I would like to get some opinions and feedback. Thank you all.
Xvos Reigns 312	Posted - 2015.12.08 01:41:00 - [2] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Solo players don't get WPs for using the scanner. Like I said before some things also need balance themselves, like scanners in general. And as it sits now...solo players don't get WPs for using the scanner.
Xvos Reigns 312	Posted - 2015.12.08 01:45:00 - [3] - Quote Maybe this idea could be translated across all classes, by race. Encouraging the use of racial equipment without entirely boxing in each race.
Xvos Reigns 312	Posted - 2015.12.08 01:47:00 - [4] - Quote Jackkkkkkkkkkkkkkky jack wrote: mayb scanner get 10wp when killed by blue, 20wp when killed by green?? I still think the scanner itself is what needs balancing at this point. No other equipment is restricted to only work on the members of your squad, that would be ridiculous, yet it passes for normal on the scanner.
Xvos Reigns 312	Posted - 2015.12.08 02:03:00 - [5] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: I doubt the game(actually the ps3 I mean) can handle doing that extra calculation. Let's not mess with something that already works. Maybe just the solo wp for scanners. I'm more concerned about the victory screen bug,that sh!t was fuking annoying as hell. I agree that bugs exist that more need the attention, but some things won't be possible without a port, which is another story in and of itself. I think that the opportunity to look at balance from many points of view will help dust evolve. I forget where I saw it but... "Sometimes seeing things differently requires NEW eyes, not just looking from a different point of view."
Xvos Reigns 312	Posted - 2015.12.08 02:06:00 - [6] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: I doubt the game(actually the ps3 I mean) can handle doing that extra calculation. Let's not mess with something that already works. Maybe just the solo wp for scanners. I'm more concerned about the victory screen bug,that sh!t was fuking annoying as hell. Edit: on a side note the cal logistics has served enough time in Nerf hell,CCP buff please? What was the stats and crap that made it so op that it got grounded nasty anyway? 5 damage mods when dmg mods were 10%. Built in reps that all logis had. And armor tanking, while standing in rep hives, before shields or speed tanking was even looked at for balance issues.
Xvos Reigns 312	Posted - 2015.12.08 02:36:00 - [7] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Xvos Reigns wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: I doubt the game(actually the ps3 I mean) can handle doing that extra calculation. Let's not mess with something that already works. Maybe just the solo wp for scanners. I'm more concerned about the victory screen bug,that sh!t was fuking annoying as hell. I agree that bugs exist that more need the attention, but some things won't be possible without a port, which is another story in and of itself. I think that the opportunity to look at balance from many points of view will help dust evolve. I forget where I saw it but... "Sometimes seeing things differently requires NEW eyes, not just looking from a different point of view." Trust me. And I'm not bashing CCP or anything but,I doubt they can code all those values to make the equipment give differing warpoints for actions done by different suits. Seems like that would stress out the ps3 even more and kill off even the best of them. And looking at your balance numbers,it still wouldn't encourage much use of the am and cal logistics in PC,gal and min would still reign supreme. Cal logistics needs a little buff,am logi is fine except for those imperial viziam flux uplinks which render the 2million skill point investment in them rather useless. And you might wanna readjust those war point values. The balance is kinda wonk,if you prefer lore based balances it would be more like this. .......Rep . spawn . supply . scans Min 30 . 10 . 10 . 10 Am 10 . 30 . 10 . 10 Cal 10 . 10 .. 30 . 10 Ga 10 . 10 .. 10 .. 25 I don't know exactly which side is allied with which but I'm sure each logi could get 2 bonuse war points if they use the allied sides equipment. Say minmitar is allied with gallente(I forgot) A min logi gets 30wp for rep,and 25 for scans(5 bonus wp instead of 20 due to being allies) Well I dunno. I don't remember all of eve's deep lore or any of the information on the how the am,cal,gal,and min folk relate to each other. I personally don't have a wealth of knowledge concerning eve lore and my numbers were literally the numbers off the top of my head as I had first thought of the idea. I definitely think there is room for improvement regarding the numbers which is why I brought this idea to the community. As far as coding goes I think it could be achieved by normalizing the WP payout for all equipment, say the base 10/15 points. Then to gain racial parity add a WP bonus to the suit itself along with the other suit bonuses. This actually might allow for better balances across the races as each class could then get its own bonuses based upon race. Say assaults get no bonus to uplinks but get a nano WP bonus. Scouts getting uplink bonuses... All these are just thoughts and I am sure with the right help this could become a very promising proposal.
Xvos Reigns 312	Posted - 2015.12.08 03:07:00 - [8] - Quote Death Shadow117 wrote: He's basically saying that the solo players don't get wp for scans is all and I think if you are carrying a scanner if anyone gets a kill you get wp it encourages the use of scanners on dropsuits. I agree. Scans should get you points, even solo. I am just trying to encourage the use of all the logis by the rewarding them for what each does best.
Xvos Reigns 313	Posted - 2015.12.08 03:21:00 - [9] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Jackkkkkkkkkkkkkkky jack wrote: mayb scanner get 10wp when killed by blue, 20wp when killed by green?? Why should a person get more WPs for using a scanner when in a squad then when they are running solo?
Xvos Reigns 313	Posted - 2015.12.08 03:22:00 - [10] - Quote Xvos Reigns wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Jackkkkkkkkkkkkkkky jack wrote: mayb scanner get 10wp when killed by blue, 20wp when killed by green?? Why should a person get more WPs for using a scanner when in a squad then when they are running solo? They shouldn't unless it's from squad commission.

Xvos Reigns 315	Posted - 2015.12.08 03:35:00 - [11] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: +1. It would make my useless gallogi worth something. What was that? Did you just say the GalLogi is useless? How dare you! My thoughts exactly. By the way...MK.0 is life
Xvos Reigns 315	Posted - 2015.12.08 03:39:00 - [12] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: +1. It would make my useless gallogi worth something. What was that? Did you just say the GalLogi is useless? How dare you! no reward for scamming. I'd rather not use it... Which I don't. I should have skilled sentinel first than logi. Scamming....how dare you sir!
Xvos Reigns 315	Posted - 2015.12.08 03:50:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: PC players are mainly concerned with winning, so I doubt an extra 10 WP will convince people to use a role they otherwise wouldn't. Ironically this would decrease variety between the Logistics in PUBs & FW, as suits like the CalLogi will be penalized due to their heavy reliance on non-Caldari equipment for WP. [Repair Tools] already grant 25 WP/tick, so it's not rewarding [MinLogi], but instead punishing them for deciding to equip something other than a Repair Tool. This theme is constant with the other suggestions, as well, just replace [RTs] with [Uplinks] and [MinLogi] with [AmLogi]. Cal would get a huge buff from this as a nano hive would grant 25 points per pulse and then 10/15 more for the rep pulses. It's not to punish min or amarr but to bring balance. I can consistently get 4K+ WPs with my min logi. Reps + uplinks + scans + revives This proposal would bring that point value down as I would be getting less points for spawns. It would allow gal to get the majority of their points from scans. Likewise with cal and amarr, for nanos and uplinks respectively. The WP values achievable across the four races is dramatically different because of the min logi bonus and I believe that doing a balancing pass on WPs earned, using a version of this proposal, is worth a try. At least worth discussing.
Xvos Reigns 315	Posted - 2015.12.08 04:17:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: PC players are mainly concerned with winning, so I doubt an extra 10 WP will convince people to use a role they otherwise wouldn't. Ironically this would decrease variety between the Logistics in PUBs & FW, as suits like the CalLogi will be penalized due to their heavy reliance on non-Caldari equipment for WP. [Repair Tools] already grant 25 WP/tick, so it's not rewarding [MinLogi], but instead punishing them for deciding to equip something other than a Repair Tool. This theme is constant with the other suggestions, as well, just replace [RTs] with [Uplinks] and [MinLogi] with [AmLogi]. Are you saying OBs don't matter in PC? Logis are basically OB farms and allowing all four races to gain WPs at the same rate, providing the type of support they were meant for, is a huge plus-plus for me. My two iskies
Xvos Reigns 321	Posted - 2015.12.08 09:05:00 - [15] - Quote CCP can you please move this to the features and ideas discussion section. Thank you
Xvos Reigns 331	Posted - 2015.12.09 01:39:00 - [16] - Quote Can I please get this moved to features and ideas discussion.
Xvos Reigns 338	Posted - 2015.12.09 19:12:00 - [17] - Quote This is when I wish dust had its own test server like eve...
Xvos Reigns 349	Posted - 2015.12.12 07:26:00 - [18] - Quote Archduke, can I please get this moved to features and ideas discussion? Please.
Xvos Reigns 363	Posted - 2015.12.13 01:03:00 - [19] - Quote @CCP Frame @CCP Archduke Can I please get this moved to the proper sub forum? - Features and Ideas Discussion Thank you for your time. We all know how busy you are with our Dustmas Gifts.
Xvos Reigns 412	Posted - 2015.12.23 08:44:00 - [20] - Quote Once again requesting a move to the proper sub-forum. Thank you